WTF Was I Thinking Video: Hollywood Balds

I guess I didn't do one last week with everything going on, so here we go.

I was feeling a little musical this week. This was a music video/highlight reel commissioned for the Hollywood Balds using their entrance, "BALD" by The Darkness, that I put together back in December.

• Hollywood Balds consist of "Deeeelicious" Jimmy Demarco and Vendetta in the IWC.
  
• This video was a lot of fun to put together.
• I make several "cameos" in this one in the crowd (typically upper right side)
• Jimmy Demarco reminds me of the video every time I run into him.
• Most of the footage is from the Hollywood Balds' matches at the Court Time Sports Center in Elizabeth, PA, one is from Newville, PA, if I recall correctly.
  
• Sorg isn't a fan of the Darkness. But this song is awesome.
  
• This was only my second attempt at a music video, I believe.

Hope you dug it. Hope you rocked it. Have another one next week.

Juggalos and New Media

When I started getting into the Juggalo community, around 2000, I noticed a trend that we all embraced the internet and grew strong. ICP has garnered an online following that, I'm sure, suppresses their need to invest in "traditional" means of advertising. How many tours and albums are released with an internet push, almost alone, and made it to top 10s and sold out venues. From the Faygoluvers, to RealJuggalos, TheSixth.com, Milenko500, and all of the little regional web sites that popped up (including WPAJ).

For the past several years, I have noticed some trends. First, the "thinning" of juggalo sites. There have been less and less presence of lasting Juggalo sites. Everyone goes to Faygoluvers and JuggaloNews to get their news. In some cases, more than going to ICP or Twiztid's site. Fact: According to Alexa.com, Faygoluvers.net does indeed rank higher in visitors that insaneclownposse.com.

Also, over the last couple of years, we have embraced some new things, such as Shoutcast streams, Podcasts, and more. I've had the pleasure to help teach at several seminars since, and want to make sure the Juggalos are looking forward as well.

I've talked with plenty of people at these conferences that are considered experts in social networks and new media, and they are often amazed by our community's efforts and gatherings of great numbers of people, including the incredible Kennywood group pictures, comedy shows, and release parties. And I'm not ready to think that we can't repeat, of even grow this success.

So what are we to do, as a community? We embraced web sites and message boards. But what's next? How to we keep these thing going?

Already, many have taken on social networking. Just search "Juggalo" on Myspace and you get scores of profiles. There are a smattering of Myspace Groups, but very few have any real conversation going on. The people that put together myhatchetspace.com know how important all of this is.

I encourage productive 'lo's to look into Podcasting. With limited computer knowledge, and sometimes, just with a phone, you can start a show that can be done live, accept callers, run a live chat room, on several services with ease, including Talkshoe.com (where we host Mayhem and WPAJ Interview), Blogtalkradio.com (where Jury does The Artist Point), and even BlogTV.com (where we simulcast Mayhem Show live). Both of the Podcasting option also get your show on itunes and other Podcasting directories, making your shows instantly available to thousands(millions?) of potential listeners.

And as far as keeping it social, I recommend Juggalos look to these portable social sites. Twitter, you've seen at the top of WPAJ with a stream of WPAJ ninjas. It's like a giant chat room that we all share. The real appeal is the ability to get this service on your cell phone (hope you have unlimited text messages) and being able to connect anywhere you're at. Another service on it's way is Brightkite. Much like Twitter, but you can check in at a location, send photos, messages, and see if there are other ninjas on your list in your neighborhood to connect with.

I want to extend a hand of help to anyone who may be inspired to start something like this, or participate in any of the sites mentioned. If anyone has any questions about what's new in this "Web 2.0" world, feel free to contact me, Juggalos. Hit me up on AIM at spsjuggalo, or my personal email at mikesorg@gmail.com.

I invite all the Juggalos to contribute their thoughts on our newly rechristianed WPAJ Board at this thread.

WPAJ Interview: Trifecta!

It was a marathon, but we have three new interviews up on the WPAJ Interview Feed!

First, one of three groups debuting at Sorgstock Spring Edition in just over a week, Poetically Gifted Honkeys. Check them out at www.Myspace.com/poeticallygiftedhonkeys.

Next, another Pittsburgh talent, we talk with Sikes about his debut album, his rock band, Cassonova Sparks, and what's coming up for Sikes! Check him out at www.Myspace.com/therealsikes!

Last, we talk to Psycho Jesus about the Blaze tour, the Gathering, Mario Kart, and look out for those cars. Scope him out at www.Myspace.com/psychojesus

Wrestling Mayhem Show 118: Treehouse Mayhem 2

Lunchbox and Missfit are live at the Creative Treehouse with some Pod People! Thanks to Jesse for letting us record!

Part 1 We talk wrestling news, RAW, Steelcity Wrestlefest, and we are joined by Norm Huelsman, of the StromHuelsman Podcast, and Casual Magic.

Part 2 We cover the fan mail and discuss some wrestling, as LB and Missfit enjoy their wheelie chairs.

This is Episode 118 for Tuesday, May 27, 2008. You can get the episode here on Talkshoe, subscribe, and as always, stay tuned to www.WrestlingMayhemShow.com for the latest! The Wrestling Mayhem Show is recorded live and can be heard/viewed from 8 PM to 10 PM Eastern on Talkshoe.com and BlogTV.com.

Fellow, former, WPAJ member needs some prayers.

From www.WesternPAJuggalos.com:

Hey guys. I received an email just this evening from an old friend of the site, Fat Toney.

Now, Fat Toney was one of the guys that got me into that whole "streaming radio" concept a few years ago that spawned WPAJ Radio and, eventually, the WPAJ podcasts I run, in the Wrestling Mayhem Show and WPAJ Interview. In the long run, I have a lot to thank him for leading me to the position in this town's blogosphere community I have today. We finally got to meet at the Juggalo Day at Kennywood in 2003, as well as the Gathering of the Juggalos that next year, I believe. He's had a lot of stuff in his life, a wife and a child, that made him move away from this community and go on with his life, keeping in touch all along with me.

Here is an excerpt from his email explaining his situation:

"The reason i emailed you is I was wondering if you can get word out for me to have other Juggalos and lettes pray for me. The doctor thinks i have cancer but he is not sure till i get another doctor to look at me. This has been my second scare of cancer and My family beenprone for cancer. I made a tagged site to chronolize my possible cancer problems to give people updates on me and my condition. i was wonderingif other juggalos are having similar problems like me and wanna form asupport group or to talk about there expriences with it. I am thinkingof writing a book about us Juggalos and lettes called Living Juggalo:our fight song. I was also wondering if you can spread my link out for others to drop comments on my site to give me and others support or ifthey would like to donate words for the book or other things. any comments of encuragement would make me and other feel better and help us fight the battle and live on. on below is my website if you could pass that along to others and get the word out there for me and help me seek out other juggalos/lettes with cancer or other sicknesses life threathing so we could start up a support group. Thanks for you timemike say whats up to the crew for me."

http://tagged.com/fattoneyisdead

My WWE.com Wishlist

No secret that I am an avid wrestling fan/podcaster, and Web 2.0 aficionado. Well, I think it's high time WWE.com's producers attended a Podcamp session or two...

Things I like about WWE.com

• The Dirt Sheet and Santino's Casa are some of the best WWE segments not on TV right now. (and they should be). If this were the days of syndicated Superstars and Wrestling Challenge of 15 years ago, they would find a home there.
  
• The inclusion of "industry news" is a great way to show WWE as the dominant role they are, and still scratch the backs of the "undercard" of the business that they derive their talent pool from, in most cases. Even their "competitor" in TNA is listed in several stories, as well as Ring of Honor.
  
• Thank you for cleaning up the navigation as of late. It was getting hard to find something as simple as title histories and future PPV schedules before now.
  

But WWE.com, Joey Styles, here are some things that will make your site truely up to date.

• Lose the Windows Media Player. It's a bitch to use in non-IE browsers, as most haven't them up properly, or have some sort of relationship problem, from my experience. I do see your attempts at incorporating Silverlight, starting with the ECW content. Time will tell what that brings.
  
• RSS Feeds. I would love to hook up WWE.com in my Google Reader to see when my favorite segments (the Sheet and Casa, mentioned above) and even news stories, without me having to peruse the site and discover these updates on my own.
  
• As an attachment to that, itunes! Why wouldn't I be able to do the same with the videos in my itunes! automatically serve me the WWE.com segments I want. They could even sxpand their on demand service they push through their web site to watch old matches and PPVs for purchase through there. No reason DVD releases and events couldn't be released here as well.

But overall, I'm surprisingly happy in the direction of the site since Joey Styles' reassignment as .com bossman.

What's been happening

For those close to me, you know something horrible happened this past week. I don't know what I'm going to say, but I need this right now....

Last Tuesday night, my cousin, Tom Lorigan, was stabbed and killed in Greenville, PA. His daughter, Heather, was also stabbed in the head. She is in critical condition, almost a week later now.

There are many updates on the situation, thus far.

I can't say that I was close to either. I had little dealings with them over the past years. Tom was living down the road from my father at my grandparents' old house, through some turns of events. Much of the Sorg side of my family seemed detached, from my point of view. Things just stopped after Grandpa died, and Grandma's deteriorating condition set this drift in stone. My immediate family was closer than ever. So I didn't know what to think, going up for the funeral. I was shocked at the events. Mortified that it was my family. But I didn't get hit with the emotional impact of what and who it was until Monday morning. My cousin Andy had a beautiful speech about Tom. Even taking responsibility for the "long hair trend" he started as a high school rocker, that spread to Tom, and still lives on with my father, brother, and myself. Connie came up as well. I knew she grew up alongside all of the Lorigan boys. So I expected something from her.

I honestly never had much interaction aside from all of those family gatherings that I've long forgotten about, I suppose. The mentions about Tom being the bit of a prankster, playing with snakes (which I, for one, hated it, and not still fond of snakes). I remembered playing with Heather and Rachel, and always running into them in the hallways when I transferred to Greenville for my last years of school. They were just there. And now they're not.

This is something that won't die, really. Heather is still in the hospital, fighting for her life. I don't think I could possibly expect a "full" recovery from the injuries she received. Two very young children witnessed this event, and will be affected for years to come. Greenville will feel it for a long time, much like a high school suicide that occurred before I came along. Just a glance at this message board gives you an idea of what's going one up there. The man arrested just hung himself Saturday in his jail cell. That is one less source of answers to this damn thing.

And what a commentary on our day when, minutes after seeing the article naming the killers' arrest, I found myself on a myspace page for the girl mentioned. It was a surreal moment to see this page with the two of them, and "friends" and comments back and forth with the kids and their mother and Heather's sister. I didn't even know Tom had a myspace page until it was mentioned in the newspaper.

This was a horrible incident. And it's going to get worse, and probably weirder, before it gets better.

Things that I've learned from Uwe Bol

I was snookered into renting "In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale" and finally watched it this evening. Now, I recognized "Dungeon Siege" as a video game I never played, and thought it to be purely coincidence. But as the opening titles rolled, I was damaged by the name...Uwe Boll...So now...

Things that I've learned from Uwe Boll

1. There are very few movies that I will take out of my DVD player, place back into the little red envelope, and place into my mailbox without finishing. And I've rented some crap before.
   
2. Actors that kick ass in other movies, such as Jason Statham (The Transporter), Ron Pierce(?Hellboy), and Burt Reynolds (anything cool in the last 20 years) are not enough to save a movie like this. I was even excited to see Matthew Lillard(Hackers, Scream)
   
3. Jason Statham has some great fight scenes in his career. This does not translate into large army battles int he middle of the woods, or the keen use of a damn boomerang.
   
4. The wizard guy in this reminds me of a show of better quality. Sliders. Yes, I said Sliders. Even that was better than this crap. (disclaimer: Sorg is a Sliders fan, yet still acknowledges it's quality)
5. Uwe Boll is a genius in taking advantage of his native German entertainment industry tax-break laws to finance his films (producers receive a 100% deductible, it seems) If only the producers of acclaimed films such as Pan's Labyrinth take advantage of such things.
   
6. The trailer was very deceptive in the film's awesomeness. Kudos to the trailer editors who hid the horridness of this. They even did this without showing Burt Reynolds as the king! That alone would have tricked me into this rental.
   
7. Ninja archers and vine lesbians were the oddest additions.
   
8. And Ray Liotta has a sweet leather jacket for being in medieval times
   

I hurt myself...

It’s coming sooner than you think, and the words are starting to be exchanged betweent he combatants! Here’s the latest lineup!

Presented by
www.WrestlingMayhemShow.com

DDW Prove Yourself Match
Bobby Danger vs Lucian X

Masked Challenge Match!
Ro-Sham-Bo vs The Sparrow

Plus Elder Statesman, MexicanJewLizard, Sweaty Snatch, Chupa Thingie and more!

SorgStock 2008: Spring Edition
June 7
5:00 PM to All Night Long
191 Ray Road, Jamestown, PA 1s6134
Google Maps * MapQuest

Wrestling Mayhem Show 117: GQ Money and Bubba the Bulldog

Doc Remedy, Lunchbox and FOTS Missy are in studio and ready to Mayhem!

Part 1 We talk to XPW's GQ Money about the upcoming XPW reunion show, and the Ab Rocket?

Part 2 We talk to Pittsburgh legend and B-94 DJ, Bubba the Bulldog about starting IWC, his experiences over his 12 year career, and him finally getting his hands on Kurt Angle this Saturday at Steel City WrestleFest!!! We also get Fanmail and a call from "Macho".

This is Episode 117 for Tuesday, May 20, 2008. You can get the episode here on Talkshoe, subscribe, and as always, stay tuned to www.WrestlingMayhemShow.com for the latest! The Wrestling Mayhem Show is recorded live and can be heard/viewed from 8 PM to 10 PM Eastern on Talkshoe.com and BlogTV.com.

BlogTV.com videos from this week's show...
MayhemCam: Stoke Missy
MayhemCam: Clown Apology
MayhemCam: Monkey Thing
MayhemCam:Kendo Stick
MayhemCam: Macho Monkey
MayhemCam: "I'm Chachi"
MayhemCam: Foam Penis
MayhemCam: Dr. Feelbad Nut Sack
MayhemCam: Dance Outro

That's enough of that...

Really, I just want to watch a wrestling PPV with as little trouble as I can. I could just buy them all, sit at my house with my nice TV, and, y'know, not be able to afford doing anything, because, by my estimate, I would be shelling out almost $600. More, likely, if I bought the new HD option.

So I've tried the "PPV party" concept. From annoying people that piss people off, to people no showing and I'm stuck with the bill (and don't have the gull to ask more than $5 from anybody), to just general badness.

Then we've gone back and forth with going out to public places to watch them. Hooters was fun for a bit when we invited all of the Juggalos out a few years ago. Then they started charging and it lost it's luster. (we bought food, isn't that the reason they draw us in with the show?) We started going back last year, maybe hit two shows, and it was horrible. The food sucks. And the bill is always a fucking mess. And several times, we would have a huge bitch of a waitress.

Finally, we found Fox and Hound on McKnight Rd. A godsend! There was a separate room dedicated to the show. Regardless of any other sporting event that night. Excellent. We probably have not been at a show here since November. Maybe October. We've attended PPVs here in Pittsburgh and in New York. Had PPVs at people's places, missed one. So we return!

And the first strike: cover charge. Not mentioned on the door. Asked the one girl and they just started this three weeks ago for events. WTF! So ok, that sucks. Already considering not doing this again. Then we go 2 and a half hours without anyone even asking us if we wanted food. Missy got mad (mostly because she didn't even have a water refill) and we ended up getting food for free. We are ready to leave and find that the drinks, which belonged to our guests that already left, and were mostly told to our faces were on the house, were still on a bill.

So, this has moved me to give the home PPV get togethers another shot. I want to keep it intimate, but still have enough people to cover the shows. So we give this a shot with One Night Stand in just two weeks. (damn, WWE. That doesn't help). I also wanted to play with this idea of having a live webcam during the show again. Will had experimented with this before on his own, why not do it with a group.

Local Mayhemers, expect some Facebook invites very soon!

WTF Was I Thinking Video: Chadawick the Shadawick

March last year, we decided to make a few spots for the Wrestling Mayhem Show. Some, Apple Switch parodies, some commercials, some promos for the upcoming Sorgstock. But sometimes the best things are the impromptu. And there is never any shortage of that with the WMS guys...

• The bust belongs to Missy. I don't know anything else of the history of them.
  
• Chad busted in on another promo with this thing.
  
• This was our first experiment with green screen. Which consisted of a couple yards of green fabric we draped over a couple portable clothes racks, that we no longer use, in my living room, lit by several strategically placed lamps without their shades.
  
• Seriously, I do this at work from time to time. With better(ish) conditions.
  
• In some of these videos, especially ones shot towards the end, part of the screen started to move (from the second layer) and you could see tearing where the light was coming through from an outside window behind.
  
• We used my 42" TV as a reference monitor, just for fun.
  
• We made no less than 20 videos for YouTube on this shoot. Mostly small segments edited from a few hours of adlib work.
  

WPAJ Interview: Myztery N Sneek and Jury the Clown

Once again, we had a double header of interviews on WPAJ!

First up was Myztery and J-Lee of Myztery N Sneek. These guys are doing a lot of stuff around Pittsburgh, and will be featured on the upcoming Sorgstock show in Jamestown, PA June 7!

Second, I managed to have a half hour conversation with Jury the Clown about his show, The Artist Point, music, art, and some of the "good ol' days" in early Deface Marketing history.

Wrestling Mayhem Show 116: Chocolate Cake

Doc Remedy and Lunchbox are in studio and ready to Mayhem!

Part 1 We talk TNA Sacrifice, RAW, news, and et a call from a Canadian listener, and Chachi, who responds to Lunchbox/Scion's video leading into Sorgstock!

Part 2 Fanmail comes in, Macho Man calls in and, once again, calls out Lunchbox, and more Mayhem!

This is Episode 116 for Tuesday, May 13, 2008. You can get the episode here on Talkshoe, subscribe, and as always, stay tuned to www.WrestlingMayhemShow.com for the latest! The Wrestling Mayhem Show is recorded live and can be heard/viewed from 8 PM to 10 PM Eastern on Talkshoe.com and BlogTV.com.

BlogTV.com videos from the last several weeks...
MayhemCam: Smash That Bottle
MayhemCam: Chocolate Cake
MayhemCam: Trashcan Hit
MayhemCam: Stoke Pal


AND be sure to catch the Wrestling Mayhem Crew in attendence this Friday at Blogfest 14 in Pittsburgh, PA!

WHAT: Pittsburgh Blogfest 14
WHEN: Friday, May 16, 2008, 5:30 PM to 9:30 PM and beyond
WHERE: Finnegan’s Wake (near PNC Park, 20 General Robinson St., North Shore, 412-325-2601), in the Pub Room
WHO: All local bloggers, vloggers, podcasters (and their friends!) and Pittsburgh Bloggers
COST: Free to attend
WI-FI ACCESS: Free

Food and beverages will be available for purchase from Finnegan’s Wake, as always. Arrive when you like, leave when you must.

Video is Dead

So yeah. Today has been an odd one. I figured it was worth comment.

Woke up just on time this morning. Even though my clock showed that power came back on exactly 5 hours ago.

My back is killing me. I've had this nagging thing that can only possibly be attributed to the last CRAP show, or sleeping like a pretzel. This morning, it felt horrible. Missy couldn't find any knots in my back. It is really perplexing me.

It's a fairly light work load this week, with VHS outputs ruling the day. Which is funny since we are finally phasing out video tapes to our customers. That's a good 500 - 1000 we don't have to ship that will be now on DVD. So much easier.

I don't know what hit me this week, but I've felt the need to patch things up with an old friend. I've been more friendly to him this week and I think it may be a turning point on things. I know I just need that one less thing to worry about these days, so I picked this one.

Sorg says: Chachi has more interesting comments than I do. Read his page instead...

So much...

This is one of those days where I feel like I'm getting somewhere. I've been involved in so much lately, and making contacts and projects happen. But this was one of those days when I've talked with about all the people I've set out to and the majority of them have responded.

I do know I need to figure out some way to "lighten" my personal load. Delegation is so hard because I can never find anyone as willing as I am to be involved in my projects. A long time struggle I've had for years.

Yeh, It's a random post, but I'm taking some inspiration from my good friend and just trying to let things out on here like I used to. It's therapeutic, after all.

But, in closing, I really have to give a lot of credit to my new friend Paul, and really the entire Podcamp Pittsburgh "committee". These guys have been the highest example of people that "get things done" that has been lacking around me lately. Especially in a time where I started second guessing all of my efforts again. Thanks all for keeping me inspired to keep going.

WTF Was I Thinking Video: Office Space

So, I've been a bit of a pack rat over the years with computers. I would pick up any old hardware from friends and work just to tinker with. Around 2002, I determined I had no more use for all of these old 16 color monitors and 386 computers. So, being the big fan of Office Space that I'd been, we decided to recreate the famous scene with our old hardware.

• Music playing: "FBI Files" by Corporate Avenger. ("Freedom is a State of Mind" is a great album.)
• Matti, who is not a truck driver, fimed. Hence the impromtu Faygo shot.
  
• I punched a lot of metal. That hurt.
  
• This was int he same backyard that we have held Sorgstock for almost 10 years.
  
• I realize that the pile of computers doesn't look like much in this compression.
  

That's all I got on this one.

WPAJ Interview: Morfeen and Captain Dan

Finally, we're back to our habits for the WPAJ Interview, and we have a double shot this week:

First is Morfeen, hailing from New Jersey. It's some good ol' Wicket Shit you can check out in the interview, and on his Myspace page.

And second, we finally have a chance to catch up with Captain Dan, and a member of his "Scurvy Crew", Scott Free, who happens to be a down Juggalo himself. We talk about why Pirate Hip Hop makes sense, ninjas, nerdcore rap, and more. Check out Captain Dan and his Scurvy Crew at their Myspace Page.

Next week, we will be doing a live interview with Jury the Clown, ad Deface Marketing original, artist, and current host of The Artist Point. This time it will be Wednesday, May 14. Stay tuned for an official time!

And we're always looking for new artists to help get the word out. If you think your stuff is fresh, drop me a line at mikesorg@gmail.com.

Wrestling Mayhem Show 115: From the LB Cave

We come from WPAJ Studios, and Lunchbox tries out some remote action from deep in his artic desert lair!

Part 1 We talk RAW, IWC, and love some fish. And Missfit joins us in studio.

Part 2 Mayhem continues and we hit the fanmail. Macho Man calls in, and we finally get the AB Report from FOTS Missy!

This is Episode 115 for Tuesday, May 6, 2008. You can get the episode here on Talkshoe, subscribe, and as always, stay tuned to www.WrestlingMayhemShow.com for the latest! The Wrestling Mayhem Show is recorded live and can be heard/viewed from 8 PM to 10 PM Eastern on Talkshoe.com and BlogTV.com.

I Am Iron Man.

A lot of writers out there put down the "movie industry" for their lack of originality with sequels and adaptations, and sequels to adaptations, over the last several years. These have been the big franchise players for the summers. But should we mind it?

Right now, the movie industry is becoming a great provider of serving fans of other mediums, and introducing the properties to new, more accessible, audiences. No doubt, the recent crop of comic book movies may be the one thing that is helping keeping the ailing comic industry afloat.

So that brings us to Iron Man. Once this film was announced some two years ago, I had no expectations. Let's put it this way, I had Elektra, or X-Men 3 level expectations. I worried about how deep Marvel was digging into its properties, and didn't expect much out of it. The closer it got to Iron Man's release, the more psyched I became. This was a properly handled comic book movie. Now, granted, I don't think I have ever read a sole Iron Man comic book, though I loved tyhe '90's cartoon. Now, I find that Iron Man was possibly the highest rated super hero movie (if not movie of the year), yet!

I had a chance to see the film with a Crew of Mayhem (Chachi, Will, Remedy, Jen, Norm, Missy, etc, etc). Oh man, this was the most fun, solid super hero film I've seen, for sure. Even Spider-Man had some issues in my eyes. Iron didn't seem to have any large omissions. Actually, it was ten times better thant he recent Iron Man cartoon movie that came out last year. (The previous Ultimate Avengers seemed only slightly satisfying, as well.)

>Spoiler Alert<

And on that note, I came to find that this is the first movie to be handled under the newer "Marvel Studios" marquee. Perhaps this is the reason that it seemed so tight in representation. Now, it has been announced that the little teaser we got at the end of Iron Man will be, indeed, setting up some great things in the future. Iron Man 2 and Thor will be a month apart in 2010, and Captain America and Avengers will be in 2011. The one-two punch aspect of these movies is really interesting for strategy. We're seeing a preview of this with the Iron Man/Hulk deal this summer, that are rumored to tie together, and setup for these future movies. Kudos to Marvel for blowing away thier fans so far! There were also promises of Spider-Man 4 (I fear), Hulk continuing, and Ant-Man still in the works.